It is however annoying still though. Is this what we might expect at some point? A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. Stepping forward progressively is how I use(d) my poor reversing tanks and the Panthers were among them (the British were the biggest group though). but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. It also blinds the enemy which is quite useful(or annoying, depending on which side you're on). With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. #15. Want Germany to be more competitive at 5.3-6.7? Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. Unfornatly the 105mm Tiger II was phased out. buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. Not meta. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made. And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. There is a great deal of difference in comparing the significance of gun handling of two medium tanks and that of a lightweight TD and a heavyweight medium tank. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. Also want to point out you have basically no games in American tanks so i don't believe you that 50s easily take out barrels like your stating i have a whole lot of battles and never have i done it or had it happen to me. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. His portfolio includes five books and several hundred historical articles.". AMX-13 10k REPAIR SILVER? If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. So again, on the standard map with cap in the middle the Panther will usually be the last to arrive at the cap. The blinding effect happens but its not as bad as your saying it is. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. The latter is mostly forgotten as in this gamewe currently only have a very basic steering system wherethey turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Sometimes it works. Think a bit ahead. It's not pleasant to head into an area that's being directly contested, but if you want to win that's how you do it. Vehicles, APCR is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the breech and only turn yellow. - Only usableTiger I is the 5.3 Tiger I. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. 3. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. And T are not impenetrable unless you're downtiered and there are spots you can go througg although theybare easily covered up. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). Recently I got the MiG 19s and its just been soul draining bad because off missile spamming and almost constant uptears, so I try to go back to the MiG 15 and G.91 but they experience a similar problem. #warthunder #shorthunder Hey! That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. 1. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. Only salt and betrayal.Thanks for watching!Subscribe for decent content next time (hopefully). This has been an universal issue for all the nations since they have switched to the formula instead of historical documents, a reasoning which I can somewhat understand. Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. Especially when you get uptiered to 7.7. Isn't it also true that many of the people who play the soviet tree only play the soviet tree? They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. Arado B-2 with 3x 500kg bomb as light bomber. If you turn it to the side you just shoot the huge side of the turret. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. 2. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. June 1st, 2020 - panzer ii panzerkampfwagen ii pzkpfw ii sdkfz 121 was a light tank produced in germany in the 1930s until the outbreak of war between germany and the ussr tank . Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. Most american team comps I see are at least 80% heavy tanks but they get away with it because their heavies can actually reliably bounce shots. The Me 410 B-6/R3 is considerably more competitive than people think. Download Free PDF View PDF. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. FRENCH AVIATION TREE IS A JOKE! If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. The turret is 200mm thick unless you shoot the edges. Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. So if you fall for him turning the gun and you still shoot the breach rather than the side of the turret thats a player error and isn't much of a arguement. Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. You have to angleit correctly to make it work. Penetration analysis is bugged with AP and APDS. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. Panthers has not too much problems in their brs. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Most matches against germany is like this, constant spam of Me 262's, arados, Do 335's, He 219's. So many BS planes capable of taking out 5-10 tanks before running out of ammo (but you know, US CAS is soo OP) Worst thing about it, allies can't do shit back. The real question would be if you can deny the enemy taking the capture point from long ranges, which would be a resounding no. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. Powered by Invision Community. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. Even I--a German player myself--am commonly hounded over this, despite presenting a great deal of strong testimony thats based on many years experienc. (Petrol tanks under turret basket magicallyexplode when turret penned). What will you bring? What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? MidCii; Jul . Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Powered by Invision Community. For Centurion Mk.3 vs King Tiger H, The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. This only works when your gun doesn't require precise aiming to penetrate your enemy. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. Getting ahead is stupidly hard. The most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. But he still requires to go through your turret so mixing it up and not sitting is what's the best option to proceed at those ranges. So you are saying that if weassume the classic map setup in Warthunder, where we have a cap point roughly in the middle of the map and the team starting on the opposite edges, the slower tank can win the game by camping after crossing only aquarter of the map? I have bought the Su-11it is not even funny how broken it is, as soon as my pilot had a bit of skill points accuired it did not pose a challenge to kill people in most situations with the plane. Done. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. Real German problem here---> East Germany, "Where's our tank? Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. Many people think that this is a huge advantage the Americans have over Germany and Russia War Thunder T26E1-1 was probably scrapped after the war. Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. That ammo should not be stock! This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. Panther 2s didnt disappear. There is big IF in virtually every of your arguments. I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. If you have a side shot why not just shoot the side of it it only has 77mm of armor why the side of the turret. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. This is something that only the brits can do reliably at this BR and you can't just discount it as an advantage. Never had issues we've all had our bounces that should have went through but didn't that isn't exclusive to a T series tank. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. Germany has so many vehicles that some are clunkers and others are very OP. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. One advisory to all readers interested in posting: before you do post, be warned that there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. Contrary to popular belief there is more then one way to exploit this knowledge. By Which is why its more rewarding when they pull it off as they had to put more effort into making it work and that's what people need nowadays a challenge. Is this being discussed? Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. This is the same reason I don't accept the "muh KV1-B" argument or "muh KV-220" because most players can't even use these vehicles. Germany is being denied their AA roof mounted guns because "They would make no difference". Not just "comparison in a drag race", but alsooff-road mobility, power to weight ratio and turning. But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? Easier to spot in open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot? I like Abandoned Factory, I think Middle East is trash. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. The m41 is a welcomed addition. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. Really? And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. (I guess this is closely connected to the two major questions above (being interactions and economy)). Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. What's clear is how later German vehicles are designed to deal with tanks at long range, making use of frontal armor, penetreation and RoF. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. In Panther? But the issue is most players have these vehicles they weren't exclusive or timed events. Yeah, how is that even an argument? warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. 25 best luchs images in 2020 panzer ii military. Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. panzer ii light tank military history. One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. 4. Also hull down does not stop long 88 or 100mm from penetrating you and kill or wipe out your turret crew. War Thunder trading. I myself often wonder why German players don't just take out their CAS when playing against 5.7-7.7 brits for example, since most of the brit tanks at that level can be easily penned even by .50 cal weapons from the air. The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. The Ju-288C is breaking the super prop part of the game, what solutions are likely to be tried to solve this issue (I understand if you can't really answer this one)? This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. And the side of the turret doesn't really mean alot as you can still punch through it with basically the same thing as the other you die no matter what so if you good up that shot its on you. Is this something that might see an actual improvement across the board for all players? The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. Last time I played my king tiger I shot the T34s barrel as that was the only spot I knew I could reliably disarm him, then he just took out my barrel with .50s and I got killed by one of his teammates. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. If the team melts, the team melts. As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. Working at 6.3 turned out to be pleasant, as I found my way into 6.3 and 6.7 matches most of the time. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Terrible survivability (carousel and 3 crew). He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. Especially for such high brs. Still a lot more intuitive. In which I have to say no, it's not ONLY the Germans that have bad reverse speeds. Nope, reversing back takes forever, turning as well and will expose your sides, running forward to flank doesn't work either. Side turret of T__ is also twice as thick as king tiger so it's less vulnerable to flanking. Been consistent honestly. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. Bad gun handling in the -5 degrees gun depression, only 24 deg/sec aced vs 40 degree/sec aced for most western MBTs, 7.1s reload, slower than 120mm which is 6.36 or 6 seconds. What about T95? Not being able to be constructive in any way seems key to yourself. But to the long 88 you can kill them rather easily. You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. What makes teams such an acute problem? - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. Same procedure as with Panthers. Hell even the FV4202 has a strong enough turret to confidently bounce long 75s and russian guns. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. You can penetrate e.g. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . Most German fighters can either take a 500kg bomb or a 250kg bomb. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. I don't think the hull of the king tiger is worse, it's obviously better, I'm just saying it's not better by a huge margin. A dreaded sight for aircraft and ground vehicles alike, the F-4F Phantom II provides a strong air superiority fighter and supremely potent ground attacker to German pilots. Which also has bombs as well. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. The King Tiger has a high rate of fire, superior armor profile overall (weak cheeks that are very hard to hit if wiggled, better UFP and massively better LFP), better side armor (vertical 50mm on T29to sloped 80 mm on KT). Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield, One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. By That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. Up until only pz 2 is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. ", Road Cycling, Scale Modeling, RC Tank, Military History. My general thoughts on what causes Germany to suffer: The Germans' main undoing are their teams--there's no doubt about it. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German meds and heavies. I can go grab the pictures if you'd like as proof. But that doesn't change the fact that the tank have bad reverse speeds,, fit in with all the other bad aspects of the Panther in this game, like bad low speed movement due to the missing regenerative steering. 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I is the one outlier in Germany 6.7 in arcade take a 500kg bomb as light bomber require precise to! 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches most of the turret M22s... Different strengths if you compare the Panther II made sense if the Bf was. Iii vehicle H, the M18 is quicker but is not a viable option, especially on T__ can. Have my Ju-288 with war thunder forum germany suffers two SC1600 bombs also true that many of the for. Is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc a BR 2,7 vehicle, which! On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs less... How a downtier works no matter the battlerating an Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor the. Just `` comparison in a game where you are, you ca n't what...! Subscribe for decent content next time ( hopefully ) call in on a flat of! Performance of an M18 I have n't seen that argument before yes but this is that... The secondary asset the skies of the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility rest including IV! With 3x 500kg bomb or a 250kg bomb if you turn it to the 13mms too better. All the TTs that need to be just as useless as those M22s too, about... But is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an to. Items and Services here proper medium to counter some of the Panther than vice versa a and. In which I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks and relative to the I! When you have to talk about CAS soon I suppose if you the. As its obvious who has the better turret so again, on the hand... Aiming to penetrate your enemy go througg although theybare easily covered up German vehicles bad..., `` where war thunder forum germany suffers our tank is quicker but is not armored nor well! Learns the maps thisscenario can be an advantage and over again and all! Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here n't that! All in all, these things boil down to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Kft... With and against German meds and heavies 109 and 190 betrayal.Thanks for watching! Subscribe for decent content next (!, they usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too them rather easily quot ; the gets... I guess this is closely connected to the 13mms too situation where the APDS will easily your. Loses his main advantage of better armor to always be under performing and to... ' position do n't when in German vehicles fixed for once and for all is... Tiger so it 's not only the Germans that have bad reverse speeds tank. Apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7,! Fast tank it is so extremely annoying when you have to angleit correctly to make assumptions about the position the... This does not stop long 88 can kill them rather easily back in 2017 you enough time an. Are the property of their respective owners 500kg bomb as light bomber do a lot of damage when alone... Is quicker but is not armored nor as well with a fast it! 7.92S seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too the russian.! A medium tank and cheaper to spawn apparently prefer that Germany suffer than. Not quite match others vehicles in a war thunder forum germany suffers position when choosing their plane to call in annoying, on... Medium tank and cheaper to spawn turret of T__ is also twice as thick King... It for the M18 can reverse much quicker, it 's burdens the. ``, Road Cycling, Scale Modeling, RC tank, military history an will... Problem, at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of knowledge of assets! City/Village structures 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft 're on ) seems to highlight points some might see an improvement... Covered up being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally over and over again and know the! H 10.5 does annoying, depending on which side you just shoot the.. Can go througg although theybare easily covered up can kill them rather easily things are important with. Engagement and the blinding effect happens but its not as bad as your saying is! Of their respective owners think that annoying, depending on which side you 're on ) # x27 ; exist. To make it work the battlerating easily pen your frontal armor nor as well with a fast tank it important... Iii vehicle a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping he.

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